[Ardour-Users] Ardour 3 - export bugs
kim at anechoicmedia.com
Wed Jul 2 16:05:55 PDT 2014
On 07/02/2014 03:14 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com
> <mailto:kim at anechoicmedia.com>> wrote:
> I recently upgraded to a new laptop and switched from Ubuntu to
> Mint - *my config is in my sig at the bottom of this post
> after my upgrade I bought the linuxDSP plugin bundle since they
> were being offered at a special price
> all the LV2 plugs opened in Ardour2 with the old barebones generic
> UI's but it was suggested that I try them in Ardour3 to see the UI
> in its full glory
> so I became a monthly subscriber then downloaded/installed Ardour3
> not having been keeping up with all the work being done in Ardour3
> over the past couple of years many of the new features came as a
> surprise to me
> e.g., no more auto-crossfading of regions in a track - this was a
> very handy feature which I realize can be replicated with more
> mouse-clicks and maneuvering but still...
> The change was based on lots of feedback from many professional audio
not sure I get why pulling it out would solve anything for professionals
- what behavior would they expect IF they are still allowed to overlap
regions then? I would expect a mix of regions when overlapped - no? and
if they do mix why not have them cross fade instead of doing a
sorry for rehashing all this - I know I'm late to the Ardour3 party and
everyone is grumpy from overwork :\
> This type of xfade (as long as the overlap) is extremely unusual and
> basically constitutes "mixing" for which there are other approaches.
right, some audio editors used to have a feature called "paste mix"
which was also apparently of "no use to professionals" and why it's no
longer found in mot editing apps - it was a very useful prototyping
feature not found in the beige vanilla audio editors commercially
available (Audacity also lacks this btw)
but yes the cross-fading overlapping regions was unusual and was part of
what made Ardour2 a cut above the rest IMO
> and the fact that MIDI now needs a a2jmidid bridge to get my
> controllers to speak to Ardour (thanks to Robin G. for helping
> me!!)...I see where Jack is going and I welcome this - I look
> forward to the day when Jack becomes the CoreAudio/MIDI of Linux Audio
> You do not need a2jmidid if you use Jack 1.
I'll stick with Jack2 for now - I find that when I start "solving"
problems like this in Linux audio new and bigger ones emerge and I can't
afford the downtime in the studio right now
> but the export window in Ardour 3 gave me more trouble and helped
> me decide to stick with Ardour2 until things get fixed
> here's what happened:
> Most (not all) issues with export have been caused by Jack2. Some of
> them are fixed with the version you have, but not all.
OK - is there a bug list I can look at?
> - I imported a 23 minute piece of stereo audio (44/24 wav) into
> Ardour 3 that I generated from Pure Data so I could trim, edit and
> make fade-in/outs
> - when I clicked on export I fumbled through a hella-confusing
> export panel which kept duplicating tabs as I tried to create a
> new one
> It is more confusing because it is VASTLY more powerful.
do clarity and power have to be mutually exclusive? I find that
confusion in a UI leeches any potential power
for example: IIRC there wasa tab called Redbook but I wanted to add one
that suited how I work, so I added a tab and proceeded to edit it, I
called it 44_24, so the new tab was created but it also replaced the
existing tab that was Redbook with a duplicate of the 44_24 one just
created so I wound up with two tabs called 44_24
> We would welcome suggestions on how to simplify it/ease its use.
good to know you are open to suggestions - I just want to be able to add
a new tab then modify it with the various params I typically use for
audio - it seems like it's almost there - it's just unclear exactly how
to do this
> - the expected behavior was that I could simply add a new tab then
> edit it so I could modify that tab to export a file to a format
> and resolution I typically work in -- but this seems to be an
> inaccurate assumption on my part...?
> the format you want ought to be already available. if not, we should
> add it.
not that I could see and why I tried to add it - I would expect that the
user could add her own tabs with format/resolution/bit depth params for
ease of workflow - is this not how its supposed to work?
> - after becoming frustrated with how it behaved I deleted all the
> tabs in the export panel and successfully made one that would
> export 44/24 .wav
> - I clicked on the export button
> - then a dialog window/log came up with an error (couldn't copy
> and paste this IIRC) but it looked as though it had rendered out a
> file in the tabbed panel underneath the error/log window but I
> can't remember if this was the case
> - Ardour3 froze
> - and would allow me to close the error/log window
> - and I couldn't quit Ardour3
> - I also couldn't close the export panel
> - so I did a force quit using htop on the command line
> - and rebooted the machine for hygienic purposes
> - I discovered that I lost the directory containing my new Ardour3
> session (even though I saved it after I created the new session)
> as well as the presumably exported 44/24 wav file - which i'm
> guessing wasn't actually exported at all because of the freezing
> export panel and app
> - thank goodness I still had the original export from Pure Data
> - so I opened Ardour2 and quickly replicated all my edits and
> exported it without any trouble
> so my questions are:
> - after some Googling I found some old reports about this export
> bug but thought it had been squashed - is this not the case?
> - can some illuminate me as to how the export panel is supposed to
> work? or point me to a RTFM link?
> the export dialog has not been written up in the manual.
I saw that -- but there was no indication elsewhere (that I could easily
find) of how export should work
> - is the region crossfade coming back? - this allowed me to quickly
> audition edits and was a indispensable feature for sound design when
> using Ardour as an audio EDITOR and not a multitrack DAW
> if you mean "crossfades that automatically span the entire length of
> an overlap" ... i have some loose plans to reinstate it as an option
> after an initial overlap is created. i have no plans to reinstate
> tracking the overlap length and updating the crossfade based on that.
that's a shame since it made working on quick and dirty sound design
prototyping very easy - I guess I'll just have to use the fade-in
fade-out handles and kludge my own cross fades then :\
I understand I'm walking into conversations and debates that have been
raging for some time now and probably everyone is sick of rehashing for
people just migrating to Ardour3 now but I have been a evangelist for
Ardour for years and a monthly subscriber now and would hate to see it
become a design by focus group tool that is useful to people cranking
out pop records and film soundtracks only (aren't there enough tools for
those people?) - the thing that made Ardour killer is how simple and
intuitive it was to use and how some of the features could be found
nowhere else - I I like where Ardour 3 is headed but I hope you don't
throw out the baby with the bathwater by killing all the charm of Ardour
2...which is the version I'm rolling back to for now as Ardour 3 doesn't
seem ready for prime time. :)
my 0.02 euros
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