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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/02/2014 03:14 PM, Paul Davis
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Kim
Cascone <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kim@anechoicmedia.com" target="_blank">kim@anechoicmedia.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div lang="x-western"> I recently upgraded to a new
laptop and switched from Ubuntu to Mint - *my config
is in my sig at the bottom of this post<br>
<br>
after my upgrade I bought the linuxDSP plugin bundle
since they were being offered at a special price<br>
<br>
all the LV2 plugs opened in Ardour2 with the old
barebones generic UI's but it was suggested that I try
them in Ardour3 to see the UI in its full glory<br>
<br>
so I became a monthly subscriber then
downloaded/installed Ardour3 3.5.380-dbg<br>
<br>
not having been keeping up with all the work being
done in Ardour3 over the past couple of years many of
the new features came as a surprise to me<br>
<br>
e.g., no more auto-crossfading of regions in a track -
this was a very handy feature which I realize can be
replicated with more mouse-clicks and maneuvering but
still...<br>
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<div>The change was based on lots of feedback from many
professional audio editors.</div>
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not sure I get why pulling it out would solve anything for
professionals - what behavior would they expect IF they are still
allowed to overlap regions then? I would expect a mix of regions
when overlapped - no? and if they do mix why not have them cross
fade instead of doing a butt-splice mix? <br>
<br>
sorry for rehashing all this - I know I'm late to the Ardour3 party
and everyone is grumpy from overwork :\<br>
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<div> This type of xfade (as long as the overlap) is
extremely unusual and basically constitutes "mixing" for
which there are other approaches. <br>
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right, some audio editors used to have a feature called "paste mix"
which was also apparently of "no use to professionals" and why it's
no longer found in mot editing apps - it was a very useful
prototyping feature not found in the beige vanilla audio editors
commercially available (Audacity also lacks this btw)<br>
<br>
but yes the cross-fading overlapping regions was unusual and was
part of what made Ardour2 a cut above the rest IMO<br>
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<div lang="x-western"> <br>
and the fact that MIDI now needs a a2jmidid bridge to
get my controllers to speak to Ardour (thanks to Robin
G. for helping me!!)...I see where Jack is going and I
welcome this - I look forward to the day when Jack
becomes the CoreAudio/MIDI of Linux Audio<br>
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<div>You do not need a2jmidid if you use Jack 1.<br>
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I'll stick with Jack2 for now - I find that when I start "solving"
problems like this in Linux audio new and bigger ones emerge and I
can't afford the downtime in the studio right now<br>
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<div lang="x-western"> <br>
but the export window in Ardour 3 gave me more trouble
and helped me decide to stick with Ardour2 until
things get fixed<br>
<br>
here's what happened:<br>
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<div>Most (not all) issues with export have been caused by
Jack2. Some of them are fixed with the version you have,
but not all.<br>
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OK - is there a bug list I can look at? <br>
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<div lang="x-western"> <br>
- I imported a 23 minute piece of stereo audio (44/24
wav) into Ardour 3 that I generated from Pure Data so
I could trim, edit and make fade-in/outs<br>
- when I clicked on export I fumbled through a
hella-confusing export panel which kept duplicating
tabs as I tried to create a new one<br>
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<div>It is more confusing because it is VASTLY more
powerful.</div>
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do clarity and power have to be mutually exclusive? I find that
confusion in a UI leeches any potential power<br>
<br>
for example: IIRC there wasa tab called Redbook but I wanted to add
one that suited how I work, so I added a tab and proceeded to edit
it, I called it 44_24, so the new tab was created but it also
replaced the existing tab that was Redbook with a duplicate of the
44_24 one just created so I wound up with two tabs called 44_24<br>
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<div> We would welcome suggestions on how to simplify
it/ease its use.<br>
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good to know you are open to suggestions - I just want to be able to
add a new tab then modify it with the various params I typically use
for audio - it seems like it's almost there - it's just unclear
exactly how to do this<br>
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<div lang="x-western"> - the expected behavior was that
I could simply add a new tab then edit it so I could
modify that tab to export a file to a format and
resolution I typically work in -- but this seems to be
an inaccurate assumption on my part...?<br>
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<div>the format you want ought to be already available. if
not, we should add it.<br>
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not that I could see and why I tried to add it - I would expect that
the user could add her own tabs with format/resolution/bit depth
params for ease of workflow - is this not how its supposed to work?<br>
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<div lang="x-western"> - after becoming frustrated with
how it behaved I deleted all the tabs in the export
panel and successfully made one that would export
44/24 .wav <br>
- I clicked on the export button<br>
- then a dialog window/log came up with an error
(couldn't copy and paste this IIRC) but it looked as
though it had rendered out a file in the tabbed panel
underneath the error/log window but I can't remember
if this was the case<br>
- Ardour3 froze<br>
- and would allow me to close the error/log window<br>
- and I couldn't quit Ardour3<br>
- I also couldn't close the export panel<br>
- so I did a force quit using htop on the command line<br>
- and rebooted the machine for hygienic purposes <br>
- I discovered that I lost the directory containing my
new Ardour3 session (even though I saved it after I
created the new session) as well as the presumably
exported 44/24 wav file - which i'm guessing wasn't
actually exported at all because of the freezing
export panel and app<br>
- thank goodness I still had the original export from
Pure Data<br>
- so I opened Ardour2 and quickly replicated all my
edits and exported it without any trouble<br>
~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~<br>
so my questions are:<br>
- after some Googling I found some old reports about
this export bug but thought it had been squashed - is
this not the case?<br>
- can some illuminate me as to how the export panel is
supposed to work? or point me to a RTFM link?<br>
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<div>the export dialog has not been written up in the
manual.<br>
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I saw that -- but there was no indication elsewhere (that I could
easily find) of how export should work <br>
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<div lang="x-western"> <br>
- is the region crossfade coming back? - this allowed me
to quickly audition edits and was a indispensable feature
for sound design when using Ardour as an audio EDITOR and
not a multitrack DAW<br>
<br>
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<div lang="x-western">if you mean "crossfades that
automatically span the entire length of an overlap" ... i
have some loose plans to reinstate it as an option after
an initial overlap is created. i have no plans to
reinstate tracking the overlap length and updating the
crossfade based on that.<br>
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that's a shame since it made working on quick and dirty sound design
prototyping very easy - I guess I'll just have to use the fade-in
fade-out handles and kludge my own cross fades then :\<br>
<br>
<br>
I understand I'm walking into conversations and debates that have
been raging for some time now and probably everyone is sick of
rehashing for people just migrating to Ardour3 now but I have been a
evangelist for Ardour for years and a monthly subscriber now and
would hate to see it become a design by focus group tool that is
useful to people cranking out pop records and film soundtracks only
(aren't there enough tools for those people?) - the thing that made
Ardour killer is how simple and intuitive it was to use and how some
of the features could be found nowhere else - I I like where Ardour
3 is headed but I hope you don't throw out the baby with the
bathwater by killing all the charm of Ardour 2...which is the
version I'm rolling back to for now as Ardour 3 doesn't seem ready
for prime time. :)<br>
<br>
my 0.02 euros<br>
kim<br>
<br>
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