[Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue

[John Emmas]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sakari Bergen" <sakari.bergen at tkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>
> It seems transparency with crossfades has been causing a lot of
> confusion lately. Also I have understood that Paul doesn't like the idea
> of transparency because it is often confusing and the same results can
> be achieved using multiple tracks (and busses) at the point where you
> have the transparent region.
>
> For me the only semantically good reason to use transparency at all, is
> for overlapping regions where I don't want a crossfade,
>
Sakari - you'll have to trust me on this but that very much depends on the
type of work you do.  For most of Ardour's current market (i.e. music
editing) your comments are perfectly sound.  However, if you've ever needed
to edit dialogue (e.g. for TV, radio or film) you'll know how easy it can be
if your system supports transparency - and how very much more difficult it
becomes if you have to start using multiple tracks and busses.

Admittedly, there aren't many users (if indeed any) working in those fields
at present - but there are some big players currently looking at Ardour for
precisely that purpose.  On the face of it, transparent crossfades might
seem to offer the solution - but they'd probably only be useful where one
fade was contained wholly within the other (e.g. if fadeout and fadein were
both 4secs long, starting and ending at the same time). Suppose you have a
fadeout running from 4secs time to 7secs time, but the fadein runs from
6secs time to 9secs time.  Transparency accommodates this situation
perfectly.  IMHO, some VERY careful thought is needed before transparency
gets removed.  Even if it isn't needed for the music sector, it's a
distinctive feature that would be uniquely useful for other types of work.

John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sakari Bergen" <sakari.bergen at tkk.fi>
To: <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
Sent: 04 April 2008 08:40
Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue


> John is right here (this was my patch). If the region on top is not
> opaque there will be no crossfade, since having a crossfade in a place
> like that doesn't make sense. You also have to have "Options ->
> Crossfades -> Created Automatically" set to get them automatically.
>
> It seems transparency with crossfades has been causing a lot of
> confusion lately. Also I have understood that Paul doesn't like the idea
> of transparency because it is often confusing and the same results can
> be achieved using multiple tracks (and busses) at the point where you
> have the transparent region.
>
> For me the only semantically good reason to use transparency at all, is
> for overlapping regions where I don't want a crossfade, but rather make
> the top layer transparent. So, what I would like to have is a
> "transparent crossfade" option. This would actually make it a lot easier
> for me to use transparency as I do.
>
> I understood that transparency has already been dropped from the SAE
> version and if it is to be dropped from the "regular" version, I would
> be ok with it, as long as I get "transparent crossfades". I'll even
> volunteer to code it, if it is something others would want also.
>
> -Sakari-
>
> John Emmas wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Paul Davis" <paul at linuxaudiosystems.com>
>> To: "Guillaume Pellerin" <yomguy at altern.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>>
>>>> - no automatic crossfade between regions when superimposed.
>>>>
>>> Works here.
>>>
>>>
>> I think I'm right in saying that for a crossfade to be created
>> automatically
>> at least one of the regions needs to be opaque (which makes sense - no
>> point
>> in having a crossfade if both regions are transparent anyway).
>>
>> Guillaume - could you examine both regions to see whether they're
>> transparent or opaque.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Paul Davis" <paul at linuxaudiosystems.com>
>> To: "Guillaume Pellerin" <yomguy at altern.org>
>> Cc: <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
>> Sent: 03 April 2008 20:21
>> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 18:09 +0200, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul Davis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 15:39 +0000, Axel Müller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems in the last moment there went something wrong with lock edit.
>>>>>> In
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> earlier svn-ongoing it worked as expected, but in the release when in
>>>>>> lock edit mode and middle mouse dragging the region first moves but
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> release jumps back to its old position.
>>>>>>
>>>>> entirely possible. there were some deep problems with lock edit mode
>>>>> interacting with region-copy-drag. i thought i had checked all the
>>>>> possibilities, but apparently not. i'll fix it soon, it just won't be
>>>>> in
>>>>> a release.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Congratulations for this 2.4 !
>>>>
>>>> A few more bugs :
>>>> - a CTRL+Z doesn't place a region at its original state when it has
>>>> been
>>>> dragged
>>>>
>>> fixed. this is a bad one that probably means 2.4.1 is needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> - can't just _link_ a WAV file when imported
>>>>
>>> Check Options -> Misc Options -> Always copy imported files
>>>
>>>
>>>> - can't 'Import to region list' after one has been imported before
>>>>
>>> Cannot reproduce. Suspect user error or crappy GUI design.
>>>
>>>
>>>> - no automatic crossfade between regions when superimposed.
>>>>
>>> Works here.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ardour-dev mailing list
>>> ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org
>>> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
> -- 
> Sakari Bergen
> 050 3754859
>
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