[Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue

Fri Apr 4 06:10:28 PDT 2008

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Emmas" <johne53 at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>
>  Even if it isn't needed for the music sector, it's a distinctive feature
> that would be uniquely useful for other types of work.
>
And anyway - Sampo's just given a great example of why music editors
might value it too...!

John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Emmas" <johne53 at tiscali.co.uk>
To: "Sakari Bergen" <sakari.bergen at tkk.fi>; <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
Sent: 04 April 2008 12:44
Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sakari Bergen" <sakari.bergen at tkk.fi>
> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>>
>> It seems transparency with crossfades has been causing a lot of
>> confusion lately. Also I have understood that Paul doesn't like the idea
>> of transparency because it is often confusing and the same results can
>> be achieved using multiple tracks (and busses) at the point where you
>> have the transparent region.
>>
>> For me the only semantically good reason to use transparency at all, is
>> for overlapping regions where I don't want a crossfade,
>>
> Sakari - you'll have to trust me on this but that very much depends on the
> type of work you do.  For most of Ardour's current market (i.e. music
> editing) your comments are perfectly sound.  However, if you've ever
> needed
> to edit dialogue (e.g. for TV, radio or film) you'll know how easy it can
> be
> if your system supports transparency - and how very much more difficult it
> becomes if you have to start using multiple tracks and busses.
>
> Admittedly, there aren't many users (if indeed any) working in those
> fields
> at present - but there are some big players currently looking at Ardour
> for
> precisely that purpose.  On the face of it, transparent crossfades might
> seem to offer the solution - but they'd probably only be useful where one
> fade was contained wholly within the other (e.g. if fadeout and fadein
> were
> both 4secs long, starting and ending at the same time). Suppose you have a
> fadeout running from 4secs time to 7secs time, but the fadein runs from
> 6secs time to 9secs time.  Transparency accommodates this situation
> perfectly.  IMHO, some VERY careful thought is needed before transparency
> gets removed.  Even if it isn't needed for the music sector, it's a
> distinctive feature that would be uniquely useful for other types of work.
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sakari Bergen" <sakari.bergen at tkk.fi>
> To: <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
> Sent: 04 April 2008 08:40
> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>
>
>> John is right here (this was my patch). If the region on top is not
>> opaque there will be no crossfade, since having a crossfade in a place
>> like that doesn't make sense. You also have to have "Options ->
>> Crossfades -> Created Automatically" set to get them automatically.
>>
>> It seems transparency with crossfades has been causing a lot of
>> confusion lately. Also I have understood that Paul doesn't like the idea
>> of transparency because it is often confusing and the same results can
>> be achieved using multiple tracks (and busses) at the point where you
>> have the transparent region.
>>
>> For me the only semantically good reason to use transparency at all, is
>> for overlapping regions where I don't want a crossfade, but rather make
>> the top layer transparent. So, what I would like to have is a
>> "transparent crossfade" option. This would actually make it a lot easier
>> for me to use transparency as I do.
>>
>> I understood that transparency has already been dropped from the SAE
>> version and if it is to be dropped from the "regular" version, I would
>> be ok with it, as long as I get "transparent crossfades". I'll even
>> volunteer to code it, if it is something others would want also.
>>
>> -Sakari-
>>
>> John Emmas wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Paul Davis" <paul at linuxaudiosystems.com>
>>> To: "Guillaume Pellerin" <yomguy at altern.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>>>
>>>>> - no automatic crossfade between regions when superimposed.
>>>>>
>>>> Works here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think I'm right in saying that for a crossfade to be created
>>> automatically
>>> at least one of the regions needs to be opaque (which makes sense - no
>>> point
>>> in having a crossfade if both regions are transparent anyway).
>>>
>>> Guillaume - could you examine both regions to see whether they're
>>> transparent or opaque.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Paul Davis" <paul at linuxaudiosystems.com>
>>> To: "Guillaume Pellerin" <yomguy at altern.org>
>>> Cc: <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
>>> Sent: 03 April 2008 20:21
>>> Subject: Re: [Ardour-Dev] 2.4 lock edit issue
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 18:09 +0200, Guillaume Pellerin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Paul Davis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 15:39 +0000, Axel Müller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems in the last moment there went something wrong with lock edit.
>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> earlier svn-ongoing it worked as expected, but in the release when
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> lock edit mode and middle mouse dragging the region first moves but
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> release jumps back to its old position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> entirely possible. there were some deep problems with lock edit mode
>>>>>> interacting with region-copy-drag. i thought i had checked all the
>>>>>> possibilities, but apparently not. i'll fix it soon, it just won't be
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a release.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulations for this 2.4 !
>>>>>
>>>>> A few more bugs :
>>>>> - a CTRL+Z doesn't place a region at its original state when it has
>>>>> been
>>>>> dragged
>>>>>
>>>> fixed. this is a bad one that probably means 2.4.1 is needed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - can't just _link_ a WAV file when imported
>>>>>
>>>> Check Options -> Misc Options -> Always copy imported files
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - can't 'Import to region list' after one has been imported before
>>>>>
>>>> Cannot reproduce. Suspect user error or crappy GUI design.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - no automatic crossfade between regions when superimposed.
>>>>>
>>>> Works here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ardour-dev mailing list
>>>> ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org
>>>> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ardour-dev mailing list
>>> ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org
>>> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Sakari Bergen
>> 050 3754859
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ardour-dev mailing list
>> ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org
>> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ardour-dev mailing list
> ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org
> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
>