[ardour-dev] Live Mixdown

Urbansound urbansound at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jan 12 05:27:58 PST 2006

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wolfgang Woehl" <tito at rumford.de>
To: <ardour-dev at lists.ardour.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ardour-dev] Live Mixdown

> "Urbansound" <urbansound at sbcglobal.net>:
>> What is not yet clear to me, is how do I take the digitized data at
>> the Audiorail at the FOH, back down to an analog XLR state, for
>> inputting into the Ardour machine?  I use an ADA 8000 at each end?
>> $14.38 per port?  LOL even at 28.00 per port on each end, that's
>> great.  And all rack mountable. Nice.
> You'd need ADAT i/o in your Ardour host box like 2 x RME 9652 for 48
> channels.
> But thinking about this I wonder whether going digital on the
> long-distance between stage and foh really makes life easier or just
> adds points of failure.
> Matthew's comment about access to AD gains is crucial. Keep in mind that
> for example the ada8000 has potis you need to move physically in order
> to trim, no remote control whatsoever. A similar unit like the Alesis
> AI3 needs trim even before its line level inputs.

Thanks again Wolfgang, this post will close now, regarding the VNC question.

Whether or not I even have gain access at the Ardour, is irrelevant in this 
instance.  Gain settings are static, per devices configuration and would 
rareley, if ever, be adjusted live at performance if a proper setup were 
done.  It is a "Convenience" to be able to adjust gain on screen, but 
nowhere near essential in a fixed house configuration we will be.  My 
typical use of gain, is to attain a -3 db level with all things flat and no 
additional effects that effect output signal.  This puts my sliders at -0- 
db. by the time I've moved off of flat and added compression and 
normalization.  Otherwise, if the task is recording, I record all flat 
into -3db and might dub in the effects and normalization post record.

But this has cleared up the confusion on the discussion for me, regarding 
the absence of gain available to the VNC.   If the hardware provides remote 
gain and Ardour can locate it, the VNC would also have access to remotely 
trim gain, otherwise, it's done locally with screwdriver like the good old 
days. ;-)

> The VNC idea: Gets me goosepimples sticker style. I have zero practical
> experience in this field. But the thought of sitting foh and having
> everything including the Ardour host far away! Onstage! Near a bloody
> rockband! ... I mean you'd need bazookas to stay in control when they
> start throwing instruments and smash amps and all that. Messy.

The cost benefit to get the installation working and learn it's weak points, 
says "So what if it's remote?".  All of the initial setup is done down at 
the stage anyhow, in this instance.  An enclosure to hide / protect the 
system is no problem and the fannouts need a mounting surface anyhow.  The 
panic button is a pretty simple solution and effective.  The enclosure woud 
sit "Behind" the stage at floor level, under the elevation of the stage, 
with personnel access as needed.

I have a ton of VNC in use.  Yes, it feels and acts remote, but again this 
is a low exposure application in relatively reliable surroundings to start 
out.  The advantages are also that to change, or expand the system to a 
better design, will absorb and utilize all of the equipment getting to a 
more "Hardened" engineering design.

> Think I'd go for onstage analog inputs, snake to foh, ad and ardour
> right there. Control, power switch at your fingertip, reliable, proven.
> How do live engineers do it?

As an engineer of more than 30 years, I would suggest Engineers do things 
right and there's no other possible way to do it and expect reliable 
results.  Then the budget comes out and the engineers find out doing it 
right never did matter to anyone else and the engineer's authority has as 
much value as doing it right. ;-)  LOL

Thanks Wolfgang.

> Wolfgang

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