[ardour-dev] cd markers patch

nick mainsbridge beatroot at optushome.com.au
Wed Dec 1 07:07:25 PST 2004 

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 06:27 -0800, R Parker wrote:
> --- nick mainsbridge <beatroot at optushome.com.au>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 12:39 -0800, R Parker wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > I think an argument can be made for wanting to
> > export
> > > CUE and TOC files without exporting audio. The
> > audio
> > > has been exported but the TOC or CUE start and
> > > duration times have been adjusted.
> > > 
> > 
> > i agree. this is, however, a difficult option.
> > ardour doesn't know the
> > name of the audio file you're talking about in this
> > case.
> 
> CD markers are currently part of sessionname.ardour. I
> assumed your solution was expanding upon this model to
> include TOC metadata.
> 
> I don't know how anyone else organizes many clients
> and their respective sessions but I use a script to
> add a toplevel client dir with a series of subdirs:
> [studio at stepdaddy clients]$ ls r_apocolypse/
> aiff     artwork  master  multitrack  README   wav
> archive  lyrics   mp3     ogg
> 
> [studio at stepdaddy clients]$ ls r_apocolypse/master/
> cd.toc  cd.toc.bck  master01.wav  master.jam
> 
> I can't afford to have any confusion and never do.
> 

fair enough.

>  of course you
> > could browse for the audiofile to make a TOC for,
> > but that would make
> > the process error-prone and time consuming.
> 
> Based on my assumptions about what you're doing and my
> methods for organization I don't understand this.
> 
>  also,
> > the ui would begin to
> > suck. much easier to export the whole thing again,
> > no?
> 
> If you're expanding on the current feature then all
> information is part of sessionname.ardour. I don't
> know how this would change the UI. 
> 

one way, everything happens as if by magic. the "manually selecting the
audio file" thing requires knowledge of what you're doing. if a user
doesn't have this prerequisite, then for them the ui will suck ('when i
try to export a CD marker track, a file dialog opens. what do i do
now?').


> > hmm.
> > i'll tell you what - let me know when you actually
> > need to do this.
> > we'll see how frequently you wish it were there.
> 
> I'm mastering a 15 song, an 11 song, and a couple
> other albums of undetermined song count now. It
> happens alot from what I can tell. The 11 song album
> was released six months ago. Since the release a
> reissue has been ordered with a request for a new
> master where the only changes are in the TOC. It
> currently takes a second to export the CD markers. To
> export the whole album probably takes between five and
> 10 minutes.
> 
> It often seems that mastering preceeds final artwork.
> This happens all the time. So, the master TOC is
> commonly using working titles for songs. I'm trying to
> think about it and can't recall an exception.
> 

if you change the track order, don't you have to export the audio file
again?


> > <snip>
> > 
> > > In the case of a TOC file, do you envision
> > handling
> > > the many text fields[1]? Aside from a text editor,
> > can
> > > you suggest another tool for editing TOC files?
> > > 
> > it seems that mastering studios rarely use these (in
> > this country,
> > anyway). the priority for me is to enable entry of
> > the catalog number,
> > isrc and scms. once this is working, it should be
> > pretty simple to add
> > other fields. 
> 
> Who writes the TOC if not the mastering engineer? I
> don't think we want to trust the duplication house.
> Have you looked at freecddb.org? It's an example of
> why we want TOC files that have all metadata. When the
> CD is put into a player that has a display the album
> title, performer, song title are all scrolled on the
> display. That information and much more goes into the
> CDDB databases and is used for gathering information
> about the album. A TOC with track 01, track 02,
> ...track 11 just doesn't fly. At least not in my
> world.
> 
firstly, that information is *only* stored on the cddb. the ISRC of the
track and the catalog number of the CD are used to access it.
CD players don't know anything about track names or songwriters.
but forget all that.. you have me convinced. i'll try to do it, ok?
this is the funny thing, though. i have a printout here from a well-
renowned mastering studio, and it says 'brandname pre-mastering system'
on the top. note the 'pre' bit. it seems that the dupe plant actually
re-encode the PQ data and just keep the audio from the mastering house!
they rely on this printout with all the information you described on it
(actually more.. things like PQ start offset and PQ end offset). who
would've thunk??


> > > I am suggesting that editing TOC fields is a
> > > capability from which Ardour will benefit. I am
> > > pleading with you to implement it. Pretty please!
> > If
> > > you don't do it, and we ever meet, I will hug you.
> > > Take my advice and do not wish this upon yourself.
> > :)
> > > 
> > 
> > to avoid this outcome, i'm now seriously considering
> > it.
> 
> It's all about The Art of Negotiation.
>  

true.

> > > Seriously, TOC field editing will save users a
> > > significant amount of time.
> > > 
> > 
> > this will take time, but i agree it would be a good
> > thing to have.
> > 
> > > Notes:
> > > 1. fields include; Album Title, Performer, Song
> > Title,
> > > etc.
> > > 
> > > ron
> > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > nick mainsbridge <beatroot at optushome.com.au>
> > > > Beat-Route Media
> > > > > diff -ur
> > > >
> > >
> >
> /home/nick/ardour-cvs/ardour/gtk_ardour/ardour_ui_ed.cc
> > > > gtk_ardour/ardour_ui_ed.cc
> > > > ---
> > > > 
> > > === message truncated ===>
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> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-dev-ardour.org
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > CD players don't know anything about track names.
> > > 		
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> > > 
> > > 
> > -- 
> > nick mainsbridge <beatroot at optushome.com.au>
> > Beat-Route Media
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
nick mainsbridge <beatroot at optushome.com.au>
Beat-Route Media

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