[Ardour-Users] Automation from analog mix?

[Ross Johnson]

On 18/12/2010 3:21 AM, Giso Grimm wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 04:58 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>> On 12/17/2010 02:43 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
>>> I was wondering: if you are recording using a mixer (and using pre-fader
>>> recording outputs), wouldn't it be feasible to record the analog mix and
>>> use echo compensation techniques for figuring out the fader settings (if
>>> we are more ambitious, equalizer settings) and pull them into the
>>> automation?  That would allow one to use a good analog mixer (with all
>>> its nice controls) to do all the mixing hands-on, and still get output
>>> with the quality achievable by digital mixing.
>> you mean i would feed pink noise into each of my mixer channels, buy a
>> 32ch a/d converter to get the tape outs, devote two or three cpu cores
>> to analyzing what i do to the pink noise and mimick that using fader and
>> eq automation? and all that to end up with a control surface that
>> doesn't have flying faders and requires the pots to pass the current
>> value before they lock? you could perhaps sell that to euphonix nostalgists.
>>
>> plus how would you know if i do the 800hz dent with the hi-mid or the
>> low-mid band?
>>
>> i don't know... maybe for the select group of users who obtain ardour by
>> fax and ocr it back in.
>>
> I would not see it that negative: Adaptive filters are not extremely
> computationally demanding, and optimizing only a single tap filter at a
> fixed delay should work with (almost) any material. Of course you can
> estimate only quasi-linear portions of your mixing desk. And if you try
> to adapt more complex filters (like your EQ) than the convergence time
> might not be sufficient to follow your fancy automations of that EQ...
>
> It could be a simple tool which transfers your multi-channel tape and
> the final stereo downmix into an ardour project with all automations, in
> a single run. Ok, with some constraints, but not impossible in general.
> I like the idea (but maybe I belong to the fax generation :-)
>
I didn't quite get what was being proposed until I read the responses 
but now I think I might have a slightly different use for such a technique.

I have a digital console where I have numerous automated mixes stored 
but which also has a broken MIDI out and therefore no way to backup, 
offload or transfer those mixes. I've never had it fixed because I'm 
paranoid that I will lose the stored automixes during the 
repair/replacement of the MIDI module. I would like to be able to 
transfer both the audio and the mix from the broken digital desk to Ardour.

While joking about faxing and OCR, seriously, as a crude form of backup 
I've contemplated videoing the desk while it plays, but because of the 
design which controls/displays EQ, pan, etc. for only one channel at a 
time, I'd need dozens of videos per tune in some cases.

So a system that could difference the raw in and the processed out to 
derive gain and other changes across multiple channels simultaneously 
would be a life saver for me.