<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr">
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">That's why I quoted "tube amp" part. To me this is a whole new species of tube amp. It's not anywhere near the size of an actual tube amp, because it's not using traditional tubes. I'm not an engineer so I can't comment
on what deems a staggering number of components, but I can attest that you can see those little tubes glow softly through the diamond shaped window at the top, and it sounds completely different than the transistor amp I had previously (traynor 40watt 2x8).
Like... "hey look, my guitar volume knob works now!" There are tons of youtube videos out there demoing it, the AC, and the rock model using various cabs. Take a listen for yourself!</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Ardour-Users <ardour-users-bounces@lists.ardour.org> on behalf of David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 24, 2017 5:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ardour-users@lists.ardour.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ardour-Users] New tube amps</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;">
<div class="PlainText">Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> writes:<br>
<br>
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:19:19 +0000, Matt Keys wrote:<br>
>>>... "but a real guitar tube amp still surpasses even the best<br>
>>>transistor based guitar gear."<br>
>><br>
>>I picked up my first "tube amp" this month and love it. It's the tiny<br>
>>(seriously pedal size) Vox MV50 clean. I run a 2x12 cab with it at 4<br>
>>ohms (50 watts) and it's a monster!<br>
><br>
> At least this is the reason why Gordonjcp makes a fool out of himself,<br>
> begin forwarded message:<br>
><br>
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:35:39 -0500, Al Thompson wrote:<br>
>>On 12/22/2017 03:28 PM, Gordonjcp wrote: <br>
>>><br>
>>> Valve amps don't sound any different to transistor amps, and anyone<br>
>>> who says they do quite honestly needs to lay off the cocaine for a<br>
>>> while and get some perspective. <br>
<br>
Frankly, if you can only sell a tube amp sound for a reasonable price by<br>
putting a tube in, then you'll do just that, even if the tube's role in<br>
the circuit is that of a light bulb. Then you add Fender-style rotary<br>
controls and a backlit VU meter, and people expect and pay for tube<br>
sound and are willing to swear on it.<br>
<br>
Here we are talking about the amp head described at<br>
<<a href="http://voxamps.com/MV50Clean" id="LPlnk873275" previewremoved="true">http://voxamps.com/MV50Clean</a>>.
<div id="LPBorder_GT_15141124451320.003909631994504004" style="margin-bottom: 20px; overflow: auto; width: 100%; text-indent: 0px;">
<table id="LPContainer_15141124451090.256156678411658" role="presentation" cellspacing="0" style="width: 90%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: relative; overflow: auto; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; border-top: 1px dotted rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom: 1px dotted rgb(200, 200, 200);">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top" style="border-spacing: 0px;">
<td id="TextCell_15141124451130.7469210942429523" colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top; position: relative; padding: 0px; display: table-cell;">
<div id="LPRemovePreviewContainer_15141124451140.006954730710823309"></div>
<div id="LPTitle_15141124451140.8044231489510971" style="top: 0px; color: rgb(0, 120, 215); font-weight: 400; font-size: 21px; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_light, "Segoe UI Light", "Segoe WP Light", "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 21px;">
<a id="LPUrlAnchor_15141124451200.14219535264596095" href="http://voxamps.com/MV50Clean" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;">MV50Clean - Vox</a></div>
<div id="LPMetadata_15141124451210.6836207367701737" style="margin: 10px 0px 16px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 14px;">
voxamps.com</div>
<div id="LPDescription_15141124451260.8050825859375539" style="display: block; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; max-height: 100px; overflow: hidden;">
Designed with an emphasis on analog, VOX’s MV50 combines classic amplifier design with new and innovative production techniques to produce a miniature amplifier ...</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Key part of a tube amp sound is the output transformer. How much of<br>
that will you see in a "pedal size" amp that has a class D _digital_<br>
power amp stage?<br>
<br>
The English blurb actually evades lying all too much:<br>
<br>
The MV50 is equipped an all-analog pre-amp circuit that features<br>
Nutube, a revolutionary new vacuum tube that produces authentic tube<br>
tone at a fraction of the size. By taking advantage of this<br>
incredible new technology, VOX’s engineers were able to design a<br>
true, miniature tube amplifier. Beyond the inclusion of Nutube, the<br>
pre-amp circuit in the MV50 features a staggering number of analog<br>
components that effectively reproduce the dynamic character of a<br>
traditional tube amp. Paired with this innovative pre-amp circuit is<br>
a reliable and efficient Class D power amp that has been<br>
specifically designed for the MV50. From warm, natural cleans to<br>
dynamic overdrives, this power amp has been engineered to respond to<br>
the nuances of your guitar and, of course, your technique.<br>
<br>
I mean, "staggering number of analog components that effectively<br>
reproduce the dynamic character of a traditional tube amp"? The dynamic<br>
character of a traditional tube amp comes about by a staggeringly<br>
_small_ number of components. A typical full-scale tube amp has fewer<br>
circuits all-in-all than an average Opamp these days. If you need a<br>
"staggering number of analog components" then you do it because you need<br>
to emulate the very few actually _crucial_ but expensive components.<br>
That's where the tube sound part actually sits. The tube itself is<br>
mostly window dressing and possibly noise generator.<br>
<br>
I mean, now you can go whole hog over this and insist on an actual tube<br>
amp with an actual tube power stage and not "a staggering number of<br>
analog components that effectively reproduce" a tube amp.<br>
<br>
But you can't pay your marketing department by selling old technology at<br>
old production costs (or even higher because of economy of scale) and<br>
likely not meeting modern energy efficiency standards.<br>
<br>
This basically is a transistor amp with digital power stage modelled to<br>
sound like a tube amp, modeled to _look_ like a tube amp (or a steampunk<br>
version of one), and designed to _market_ like a tube amp.<br>
<br>
There is nothing wrong with that except that it makes people even<br>
stupider. But then that's what marketing is for.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
David Kastrup<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ardour-Users mailing list<br>
ardour-users@lists.ardour.org<br>
To unsubscribe or change your mailing preferences please visit:<br>
<a href="http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-users-ardour.org" id="LPlnk24776" previewremoved="true">http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-users-ardour.org</a>
<div id="LPBorder_GT_15141124450320.7388708997753637" style="margin-bottom: 20px; overflow: auto; width: 100%; text-indent: 0px;">
<table id="LPContainer_15141124450150.6210595933826759" role="presentation" cellspacing="0" style="width: 90%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: relative; overflow: auto; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; border-top: 1px dotted rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom: 1px dotted rgb(200, 200, 200);">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top" style="border-spacing: 0px;">
<td id="TextCell_15141124450210.5985051415777776" colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top; position: relative; padding: 0px; display: table-cell;">
<div id="LPRemovePreviewContainer_15141124450210.4735670684897324"></div>
<div id="LPTitle_15141124450210.40195851376627023" style="top: 0px; color: rgb(0, 120, 215); font-weight: 400; font-size: 21px; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_light, "Segoe UI Light", "Segoe WP Light", "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 21px;">
<a id="LPUrlAnchor_15141124450240.1911962936290763" href="http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-users-ardour.org" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;">Ardour-Users Info Page</a></div>
<div id="LPMetadata_15141124450250.6147370232492995" style="margin: 10px 0px 16px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 14px;">
lists.ardour.org</div>
<div id="LPDescription_15141124450280.03457935413231472" style="display: block; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; max-height: 100px; overflow: hidden;">
Your email address: Your name (optional): You may enter a privacy password below. This provides only mild security, but should prevent others from messing with ...</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>