<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Kim Cascone <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kim@anechoicmedia.com" target="_blank">kim@anechoicmedia.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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e.g., no more auto-crossfading of regions in a track -
this was a very handy feature which I realize can be
replicated with more mouse-clicks and maneuvering but
still...<br>
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<div>The change was based on lots of feedback from many
professional audio editors.</div>
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not sure I get why pulling it out would solve anything for
professionals - what behavior would they expect IF they are still
allowed to overlap regions then? I would expect a mix of regions
when overlapped - no? and if they do mix why not have them cross
fade instead of doing a butt-splice mix? <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No other DAW or audio editor behaves the way Ardour did. Its behaviour was influenced by particular ideas I had about workflow that I've since revised.<br>
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<div> This type of xfade (as long as the overlap) is
extremely unusual and basically constitutes "mixing" for
which there are other approaches. <br>
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but yes the cross-fading overlapping regions was unusual and was
part of what made Ardour2 a cut above the rest IMO<div class=""><br></div><div class="">At enormous cost to the complexity of our code. When we removed that behaviour we removed some of the most complex code in the program. Hard to maintain, hard to reason about. Impossible to do the right thing when people stack >2 regions above each other, also.<br>
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but the export window in Ardour 3 gave me more trouble
and helped me decide to stick with Ardour2 until
things get fixed<br>
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here's what happened:<br>
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<div>Most (not all) issues with export have been caused by
Jack2. Some of them are fixed with the version you have,
but not all.<br>
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OK - is there a bug list I can look at? <br><br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Not really.<br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br><div class="">
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<div lang="x-western"> <br>
- I imported a 23 minute piece of stereo audio (44/24
wav) into Ardour 3 that I generated from Pure Data so
I could trim, edit and make fade-in/outs<br>
- when I clicked on export I fumbled through a
hella-confusing export panel which kept duplicating
tabs as I tried to create a new one<br>
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<div>It is more confusing because it is VASTLY more
powerful.</div>
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do clarity and power have to be mutually exclusive? I find that
confusion in a UI leeches any potential power<br>
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for example: IIRC there wasa tab called Redbook but I wanted to add
one that suited how I work, so I added a tab and proceeded to edit
it, I called it 44_24, so the new tab was created but it also
replaced the existing tab that was Redbook with a duplicate of the
44_24 one just created so I wound up with two tabs called 44_24<br><br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">These are bugs. The export functionality was massively overhauled to allow many substantive and real-life improvements in exporting. A lot of people haven't really used it much and/or haven't reported issues, so we don't have a lot of feedback on what is confusing/broken/could be improved..<br>
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<div> We would welcome suggestions on how to simplify
it/ease its use.<br>
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good to know you are open to suggestions - I just want to be able to
add a new tab then modify it with the various params I typically use
for audio - it seems like it's almost there - it's just unclear
exactly how to do this<br><br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">The idea is that you create a new format that describes what you want so that you can refer back to it at any time. Then you use that format. Quite a few other applications (I'm thinking of rippers and transcoders use this approach too). Apparently we don't make it obvious enough.<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><br><div>the export dialog has not been written up in the
manual.<br>
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I saw that -- but there was no indication elsewhere (that I could
easily find) of how export should work <br><br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Sure, there isn't one.<br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br><div class="">
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- is the region crossfade coming back? - this allowed me
to quickly audition edits and was a indispensable feature
for sound design when using Ardour as an audio EDITOR and
not a multitrack DAW<br>
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<div lang="x-western">if you mean "crossfades that
automatically span the entire length of an overlap" ... i
have some loose plans to reinstate it as an option after
an initial overlap is created. i have no plans to
reinstate tracking the overlap length and updating the
crossfade based on that.<br>
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that's a shame since it made working on quick and dirty sound design
prototyping very easy - I guess I'll just have to use the fade-in
fade-out handles and kludge my own cross fades then :\<br>
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I understand I'm walking into conversations and debates that have
been raging for some time now and probably everyone is sick of
rehashing for people just migrating to Ardour3 now but I have been a
evangelist for Ardour for years and a monthly subscriber now and
would hate to see it become a design by focus group tool that is
useful to people cranking out pop records and film soundtracks only
(aren't there enough tools for those people?) - the thing that made
Ardour killer is how simple and intuitive it was to use and how some
of the features could be found nowhere else - I I like where Ardour
3 is headed but I hope you don't throw out the baby with the
bathwater by killing all the charm of Ardour 2...which is the
version I'm rolling back to for now as Ardour 3 doesn't seem ready
for prime time. :)<br><br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">I simply cannot agree that we killed the charm of Ardour 2. I realized some time ago that it is impossible to make a DAW that makes everyone happy. That can never be the goal. Ardour 3 keeps what I believe were the best features of Ardour 2 and adds a lot, lot more. Inevitably there are some specific workflows that are harmed by the changes and simplifications we made (sometimes to allow other more complex things to become possible). I do not believe that it has become any less intuitve except in a few cases where its original behaviour was so wrong when looking at what experience and history suggests that we simply had to change it (panning is one example). <br>
<br></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">But yeah, you are a bit late to the party. Ardour 3 development started about 3-4 years ago and we're on the edge of releasing something that might be called 4.0 ....<br>
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