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<B>On Thu Jan 8 13:20 , Patrick Shirkey <PSHIRKEY@BOOSTHARDWARE.COM>sent:<BR>
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #f5f5f5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><A href="javascript:top.opencompose('sonofzev@iinet.net.au','','','')">sonofzev@iinet.net.au</A> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >However, I don't personally think this sort of contribution really<BR>
> >makes much of a difference. It's spotty at best.<BR>
><BR>
> >There are problems. Ardour development, like most every other OS<BR>
> >project I've ever looked at, isn't developed with the 'customer' in<BR>
> >mind. How many times have we heard that 'we should be happy with what<BR>
> >we get since we don't pay' or something to that effect. We get the<BR>
> >features that developers decide to add. Ardour doesn't have the<BR>
> >features I need to really commit to using it long term so I don't.<BR>
> >That doesn't mean that I don't have the greatest respect for the<BR>
> >people that do the work. It's great work, but it doesn't support my<BR>
> >needs. I've been asking for MIDI since 2001 or 2002. It's now 6-7<BR>
> >years later.<BR>
><BR>
> >Again, I'm NOT complaining. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't<BR>
> have<BR>
> >the features I need so its _value_ is fairly low to me because I<BR>
> >cannot do the music composition with it that I want to do. Some sort<BR>
> >of hodge-podge group of Linux apps tied together by hand to send data<BR>
> >around isn't user friendly to a user who just wants to sit down,<BR>
> write<BR>
> >and play. To someone else who runs a studio and wants to use open<BR>
> >hardware and software it might be very valuable. to academic<BR>
> types who<BR>
> >like to wire things together it's invaluable.<BR>
><BR>
> >Just my view,<BR>
> >Mark<BR>
> _______________________________________________<BR>
> Ardour-Users mailing list<BR>
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> )<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I agree with the other people here that have said charging for SVN<BR>
> is counterproductive, as it will limit the amount of patch<BR>
> testing.. Also, going by a month worth of statistics isn't<BR>
> necessarily a good stat to go by. Some users (like myself) will<BR>
> report bugs as we encounter them, and then when time is available,<BR>
> work to help test patches e.t.c... At other times some people may<BR>
> not have the time to do this work, or it may not be appropriate..<BR>
> for example, I have a lot of projects on the way with deadlines<BR>
> coming up shortly.. so I am working with a "stable" setup that<BR>
> provides me the minimum functionality I need... until these<BR>
> projects are complete and I can have a few weeks break from<BR>
> actually recording, then I won't be updating or testing... <BR>
><BR>
> I'm not sure if the idea of paying would lead to more bug<BR>
> reporting. I've been a subscriber for 2 years and it hasn't<BR>
> increased or decreased the amount of bug reporting I commit.. If<BR>
> anything my bug reporting has slowed down, but there is no<BR>
> correlation between the two.. simply my available time has<BR>
> reduced. I think in this sense I probably am a typical "paying" user.<BR>
><BR>
> Mark, I completely agree with your assesment of "value" ...<BR>
> altough I am less bothered by a bit of connection work than some..<BR>
> although my workflow lends to/allows the use of ardour without<BR>
> MIDI, it would be ideal for it to have MIDI and MIDI clock<BR>
> functionality finished (for which I will be testing the patches<BR>
> once my current projects are finished (probably towards the end of<BR>
> feb).. I do use ardour for release purposes but I started making<BR>
> electronic music at a time when unless one could afford a full<BR>
> blown Pro Tools rig, it was not really feasible to do multitrack<BR>
> hard disk recording on a computer.. as such I have an extensive<BR>
> outboard MIDI setup<BR>
> The main thing is each user will be different have different needs.<BR>
><BR>
> There are really only two main solutions to the financial<BR>
> problems... sponsorship and subscription. Sponsors will be harder<BR>
> to find as most hardware companies now have some vested interest<BR>
> in software although it would be nice to see something like<BR>
> jacklab or ubuntu studio packaged with audio devices (I really<BR>
> think Behringer is one of the more likely ones to do this).. So<BR>
> really the main thing is for the users to subscribe and encourage<BR>
> others to do the same.. It has more power if the calls for<BR>
> subscription come from users rather than Paul or the other lead<BR>
> developers. really for anyone working the subscription cost is<BR>
> pretty much negligible<BR>
><BR>
> so there's my 2 cents..<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
There's also the ticker option which displays an rss feed hosted at <BR>
<A href="parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fadour.org" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">http://adour.org</SPAN></A> in the top right corner of the editor window.That way <BR>
anyone who uses the app and doesn't participate round here or actively <BR>
follow mantis tracking or the home page will still be kept upto date <BR>
with the news and can be encourage to contribute cash to bounties that <BR>
are getting near to their target goal.<BR>
<BR>
It will also allow Paul to advertise selective companies, sponsors and <BR>
even labels/artists who want to get access to the 10-20,000 currently <BR>
active user base. Another thing it could be used for is getting <BR>
realistic stats on how many people are non contributing users.<BR>
<BR>
Of course if you want to compile the app with no ticker then that should <BR>
also be possible or if you want to pay a small fee to disable it then <BR>
that could also be arranged.<BR>
<BR>
All of this could be setup to be damn near completely automated.<BR>
<BR>
The main chore once it is in place would be updating the rss feed and <BR>
potentially soliciting advertising contracts from audio related businesses.<BR>
<BR>
As Ardour is a solution for the music and entertainment industry it <BR>
shouldn't be a problem to include a bit of wholesale self promotion into <BR>
the mix as well.<BR>
<BR>
We have at least three solutions for ramping up funding for Ardour that <BR>
have been put on the table. Subscriptions are doing a good job, if we <BR>
add the ticker and the svn access ideas into the mix then we will force <BR>
people to make a choice. The choice is do they like what they get from <BR>
Ardour and are they willing to contribute or not?<BR>
<BR>
I don't see any reason why people who use Ardour should not be asked to <BR>
contribute in some way to the continued development.<BR>
<BR>
However I can see it becoming a logistical nightmare if it is not rolled <BR>
out cleanly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Cheers.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Patrick Shirkey<BR>
Boost Hardware Ltd.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
)<BR>
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Hi Patrick <BR>
<BR>
While I agree that people should be encouraged to pay (hence why I subscribe)... I'm definitely not a fan of the ticker.... <BR>
I'm pretty sure making people pay for a binary compiled without it would breach the GPL. I think it is very important that care is taken not to break GPL license terms. <BR>
<BR>
I definitely would be compiling with the ticker disabled.. and I'm sure on Gentoo systems that would become a standard ebuild pretty quickly defeating the purpose.<BR>
<BR>
Finally.. I generally stop all network polling apps and monitor style apps (gkrellm) while I am recording to reduce the possibility of xruns.. I am sure that myself and many others would simply disable their NIC or pull out the cable while recording to stop this intrusive feed. I do not think it is wise to introduce an element that could reduce a persons experience of ardour and make them less inclined to pay. (How many people ditch Winzip in favour of another app after they get the intrusive delay at startup at the end of the trial period??)<BR>
<BR>
If the site is receiving that many hits, then this alone could be incentive to introduce advertising to the site but not the app itself. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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