[Ardour-Users] Peak levels on master bus vs single track

[Axel 'the C.L.A.' Müller]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 19:25:11 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:59:17 +0100, Axel 'the C.L.A.' Müller wrote:
> >On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 23:46:54 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 23:22:50 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote:  
> >> >On 03/02/2017 09:47 PM, Will Godfrey wrote:  
> >> >> On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 21:39:12 +0100
> >> >> Robin Gareus <robin at gareus.org> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >>     
> >> >>> You really want a limiter on the master-bus (not on individual
> >> >>> tracks) As far as free software goes, I'd use swh's
> >> >>> fast-lookahead-limiter.    
> >> >> 
> >> >> Hmm. Not always. I was once sent a track by a friend that had
> >> >> horrendous ducking of the vocal due to the percussion track
> >> >> triggering the limiter.   
> >> >
> >> >good point. It's not a general recommendation, but probably the
> >> >correct one in the case that Alf mentioned.
> >> >
> >> >Yet if a percussion track can duck vocals due to a limiter on the
> >> >master-bus, that percussions must have been well above the set limit
> >> >(and actually pump the whole mix, not only vocals).  
> >> 
> >> Actually the whole mix could be just percussion + vocals ;).
> >> 
> >> However, if the limiter limits peaks of the percussion, it doesn't
> >> affect vocals that don't cause peaks, too, since it doesn't compress
> >> the signal. A limiter should never cause pumping. A limiter might
> >> cause distortion, if it has to cut too much of the level.  
> >
> >That's plain wrong!
> 
> Pff!
> 
> >A (regular) limiter (even one with lookahead) is just a compressor with
> >an infinite ratio. Hence it can cause pumping. It might just have such
> >short attack and release times that it might get unnoticed under sane
> >conditions.
> 
> Sure, a limiter can't do magic, it needs a method to work, it can not
> really "cut" away the unwanted peaks. However, take the context into
> account, IOW what else I have written.

Ok, maybe your description/wording was just a bit unlucky then. ;)