[Ardour-Users] Automation from analog mix?

Jörn Nettingsmeier nettings at stackingdwarves.net
Sat Dec 18 05:56:22 PST 2010

On 12/18/2010 10:35 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
> Arnold Krille <arnold at arnoldarts.de> writes:
>> No, the 16 channel converter is already there to record the main
>> signal directly after the pre-amps. You need another 16 channels for
>> the signal after the fader to get all the information you want for
>> automation of eq, gate, compressor and volume.
> Nope.  Just the stereo mix at the end.  It has all the required info
> after decorrelation ("echo compensation techniques") if you take into
> account that changes are confined to small bursts of activity.

i don't quite grasp what decorrelation or echo compensation techniques
have to do with it.

in any case, i really doubt this is feasible. even less so if you start
using interesting spatialisation techniques - just imagine the amount of
special-case processing your tracker would have to do to catch me
adjusting the side signal of an m/s pair - there is practically no level
difference associated with that, just a change in left-right correlation.
the relative levels are not really a very interesting or important part
of a mix, and there is certainly no magic in there that might justify
burning so many cycles on it... and even though we are all "just cooking
with water", as we say in german (i.e. there are no magic ingredients
that will differenciate our work from everybody else's), human hearing
(and especially that of balance engineers) is fussy enough that you
won't get away with even a 5% error in your tracking.

and since even the most basic aspects of a mix are already very
difficult to track, i was assuming that you were thinking of measuring
each channel strip individually, with noise, to increase the likelihood
of catching all eq changes and other parameters within a reasonable time
frame and level of accuracy and precision. my point was, if you're
prepared to do that, you are wasting resources that could be better
spent elsewhere.

>>> If one hasn't anything worthwhile to contribute, remaining silent is
>>> always an option.  It's not that one gets brownie points for
>>> newbie-bashing.

oh, come on. granted, i was yanking your chain a little, with that fax
remark, but on purely technical grounds and (i hope) in a friendly way.
i frankly refuse to label each tiny bit of irony with either a wink
emoticon or worse, the infamous "just kidding" marker... caveat lector.

you have proposed a method, and i was giving this method a hard time,
not you. that's what technical discussions are for - to beat the shit
out of our ideas so that we can be sure what remains is useful and
robust. i expect everybody to do the same to any propositions of mine.



Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Elektrofachkraft
Audio and event engineer - Ambisonic surround recordings


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