[Ardour-Users] Sync between internal and external sources

Mark Greenwood fatgerman at ntlworld.com
Wed Jan 21 12:34:18 PST 2009


Yes guys that has cleared it up a bit, thanks.. I'm still not completely
sure I have the full answer but that's more because I'm not sure what
the question is.. this all probably doesn't matter but it's interesting
and I like to know exactly how my stuff is behaving.. My latency is only
5.33ms but I'm sure I can hear it.. I've 'Nudged' my bass track back by
using 'nudge backwards by recording offset' and things definitely sound
tighter. Could always be my imagination though ...

I think I'm going to have to set my latency to something huge and then
do some experiments so I can hear what's going on. If anyone's
interested I'll report back, for reference's sake :)

Mark

On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 10:41 -0600, Christopher wrote:
> Brett nailed it.. but Mark G. was on the right track..
>  
> I've pondered this same situation as well.  It boils down to your JACK
> setup and the resulting latency from A>D conversion on your input (the
> bass).
>  
> Hydrogen is working in the digital realm until it's processed by your
> sound card to the analog output, so latency is minimal on it's output,
> or even when sending it to Ardour..
>  
> But your bass track (while recording) has to go through the A>D
> conversion which will add some latency (once again, depending on your
> JACK setup and sound card) and then also even more latency for the D>A
> process if you are trying to monitor it through software as you play.
> (software monitoring vs hardware monitoring is another story)
> 
> Granted, the latency from the SW monitoring isn't affecting what you
> are recording, just what you hear (which can in turn affect your
> rhythm while playing, making things seem to be out of sync when you
> play it back)
>  
> If you are using hardware monitoring (or just using a bass amp before
> the input to the soundcard and not monitoring it on the DAW at all)
> then the second set of latency shouldn't be an issue and your recorded
> bass track should only be out of sync equal to the amount of latency
> your card produces during the A>D conversion on the input.
> 
> Am I making any sense?  Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's still
> semi-early and I haven't reached my coffee quota yet.
>  
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>         I think you're right Brett. I read his email again and decided
>         I got
>         fooled by his info about Jack and fell immediately into this
>         old
>         multi-card conversation.
>         
>         Sorry Mark!
>         
>         - Mark
>         
>         
>         
>         On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Brett Clark
>         <brett.clark at zirous.com> wrote:
>         > I think there's a terminology issue.  Im not sure he's
>         referring to the
>         > HW
>         > sync during sampling.  I think he's referring to asking
>         about latency
>         > compensation
>         > when combining a SW like Hydrogen with a real-world
>         recording (like a
>         > mic'd amp)
>         > to be recorded via Ardour.
>         >
>         > Ive noticed sometimes when I would be recording and have to
>         "nudge" my
>         > track to
>         > get it back in time. I just had that happen last week when I
>         was laying
>         > a track
>         > with WhySynth and noticed the timing was off.  I chalked it
>         up to the
>         > fact that
>         > im not a keyboard player and did the nudge. ;-)
>         >
>         > --Brett
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > -----Original Message-----
>         > From: ardour-users-bounces at lists.ardour.org
>         > [mailto:ardour-users-bounces at lists.ardour.org] On Behalf Of
>         Mark Knecht
>         > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:21 AM
>         > To: Mark Greenwood
>         > Cc: ardour-users at lists.ardour.org
>         > Subject: Re: [Ardour-Users] Sync between internal and
>         external sources
>         >
>         > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Mark Greenwood
>         <fatgerman at ntlworld.com>
>         > wrote:
>         >> I've thought very hard about this question and now my head
>         hurts.. I'm
>         >> wondering about how, if at all, Jack/Ardour ensures that
>         all sound
>         > sources
>         >> stay in sync.
>         >>
>         >> Let's assume for the moment that I'm capable of playing an
>         instrument
>         > such
>         >> that I'm in perfect sync with a drumbeat.. (this is a big
>         assumption
>         > but we
>         >> have to start somewhere.. )
>         >>
>         >> I'm using Jack. I have Ardour set to JACK Time Master. I
>         have Hydrogen
>         > set
>         >> up to sync to Jack and play a beat. I have Ardour set up to
>         record me
>         >> playing the bass through my soundcard. I press the Play
>         button -
>         > Hydrogen
>         >> starts playing, I start playing, Ardour starts recording
>         me.
>         >>
>         >> Question 1 : When I play back my recording of me playing
>         bass, and
>         > have
>         >> Hydrogen playing along - are they in sync? Or is my bass
>         part now
>         > delayed
>         >> relative to Hydrogen by a value equal to the latency of my
>         sound card?
>         >>
>         >> Question 2 : When, at a later date, I mix down by recording
>         the output
>         > from
>         >> Hydrogen into tracks in Ardour, does the sync change?
>         >>
>         >> I ask because it sounds like I'm not in sync with my drums
>         but I don't
>         > know
>         >> if it's me.... It might be that the answer to this is so
>         obvious that
>         > I
>         >> can't see it for looking. I do know I can't see it...
>         please help..
>         >>
>         >> Mark
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > Jack itself really doesn't do anything except use a clock
>         from one of
>         > the sound cards. We have to ensure that every sound card is
>         using the
>         > same clock. By using the right external clock and
>         specifically hooking
>         > it up to all sound cards in all systems they all stay in
>         sync.
>         >
>         > It's possible to use a sound card as the master clock if it
>         has the
>         > right outputs. Those outputs *might* be spdif, word clock or
>         ADAT.
>         > (Maybe others but those are the ones I've used) you have to
>         enable the
>         > output to send the clock and then have to enable the other
>         cards to
>         > use that clock instead of its interna crystal.
>         >
>         > Hope this helps,
>         > Mark
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> 
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