[Ardour-Users] Sync between internal and external sources
Mark Greenwood
fatgerman at ntlworld.com
Wed Jan 21 12:34:18 PST 2009
Yes guys that has cleared it up a bit, thanks.. I'm still not completely
sure I have the full answer but that's more because I'm not sure what
the question is.. this all probably doesn't matter but it's interesting
and I like to know exactly how my stuff is behaving.. My latency is only
5.33ms but I'm sure I can hear it.. I've 'Nudged' my bass track back by
using 'nudge backwards by recording offset' and things definitely sound
tighter. Could always be my imagination though ...
I think I'm going to have to set my latency to something huge and then
do some experiments so I can hear what's going on. If anyone's
interested I'll report back, for reference's sake :)
Mark
On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 10:41 -0600, Christopher wrote:
> Brett nailed it.. but Mark G. was on the right track..
>
> I've pondered this same situation as well. It boils down to your JACK
> setup and the resulting latency from A>D conversion on your input (the
> bass).
>
> Hydrogen is working in the digital realm until it's processed by your
> sound card to the analog output, so latency is minimal on it's output,
> or even when sending it to Ardour..
>
> But your bass track (while recording) has to go through the A>D
> conversion which will add some latency (once again, depending on your
> JACK setup and sound card) and then also even more latency for the D>A
> process if you are trying to monitor it through software as you play.
> (software monitoring vs hardware monitoring is another story)
>
> Granted, the latency from the SW monitoring isn't affecting what you
> are recording, just what you hear (which can in turn affect your
> rhythm while playing, making things seem to be out of sync when you
> play it back)
>
> If you are using hardware monitoring (or just using a bass amp before
> the input to the soundcard and not monitoring it on the DAW at all)
> then the second set of latency shouldn't be an issue and your recorded
> bass track should only be out of sync equal to the amount of latency
> your card produces during the A>D conversion on the input.
>
> Am I making any sense? Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's still
> semi-early and I haven't reached my coffee quota yet.
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I think you're right Brett. I read his email again and decided
> I got
> fooled by his info about Jack and fell immediately into this
> old
> multi-card conversation.
>
> Sorry Mark!
>
> - Mark
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Brett Clark
> <brett.clark at zirous.com> wrote:
> > I think there's a terminology issue. Im not sure he's
> referring to the
> > HW
> > sync during sampling. I think he's referring to asking
> about latency
> > compensation
> > when combining a SW like Hydrogen with a real-world
> recording (like a
> > mic'd amp)
> > to be recorded via Ardour.
> >
> > Ive noticed sometimes when I would be recording and have to
> "nudge" my
> > track to
> > get it back in time. I just had that happen last week when I
> was laying
> > a track
> > with WhySynth and noticed the timing was off. I chalked it
> up to the
> > fact that
> > im not a keyboard player and did the nudge. ;-)
> >
> > --Brett
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ardour-users-bounces at lists.ardour.org
> > [mailto:ardour-users-bounces at lists.ardour.org] On Behalf Of
> Mark Knecht
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:21 AM
> > To: Mark Greenwood
> > Cc: ardour-users at lists.ardour.org
> > Subject: Re: [Ardour-Users] Sync between internal and
> external sources
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Mark Greenwood
> <fatgerman at ntlworld.com>
> > wrote:
> >> I've thought very hard about this question and now my head
> hurts.. I'm
> >> wondering about how, if at all, Jack/Ardour ensures that
> all sound
> > sources
> >> stay in sync.
> >>
> >> Let's assume for the moment that I'm capable of playing an
> instrument
> > such
> >> that I'm in perfect sync with a drumbeat.. (this is a big
> assumption
> > but we
> >> have to start somewhere.. )
> >>
> >> I'm using Jack. I have Ardour set to JACK Time Master. I
> have Hydrogen
> > set
> >> up to sync to Jack and play a beat. I have Ardour set up to
> record me
> >> playing the bass through my soundcard. I press the Play
> button -
> > Hydrogen
> >> starts playing, I start playing, Ardour starts recording
> me.
> >>
> >> Question 1 : When I play back my recording of me playing
> bass, and
> > have
> >> Hydrogen playing along - are they in sync? Or is my bass
> part now
> > delayed
> >> relative to Hydrogen by a value equal to the latency of my
> sound card?
> >>
> >> Question 2 : When, at a later date, I mix down by recording
> the output
> > from
> >> Hydrogen into tracks in Ardour, does the sync change?
> >>
> >> I ask because it sounds like I'm not in sync with my drums
> but I don't
> > know
> >> if it's me.... It might be that the answer to this is so
> obvious that
> > I
> >> can't see it for looking. I do know I can't see it...
> please help..
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack itself really doesn't do anything except use a clock
> from one of
> > the sound cards. We have to ensure that every sound card is
> using the
> > same clock. By using the right external clock and
> specifically hooking
> > it up to all sound cards in all systems they all stay in
> sync.
> >
> > It's possible to use a sound card as the master clock if it
> has the
> > right outputs. Those outputs *might* be spdif, word clock or
> ADAT.
> > (Maybe others but those are the ones I've used) you have to
> enable the
> > output to send the clock and then have to enable the other
> cards to
> > use that clock instead of its interna crystal.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Mark
> > _______________________________________________
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> > ardour-users at lists.ardour.org
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> >
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